A little more than half a year ago I conducted an interview with Daniel Gildenlöw on the wake of the release of their much delayed CD/DVD package. Due to unforeseeable circumstances the second half of 2009 proved to be more quiet for the band, which allowed them to catch up with their personal lives. That’s probably also the reason why the following discussion took a more personal direction but we still touched upon the most important band related issues as well.
Congratulations once again on being a father for the second time.
Daniel: Yep, it’s cool! (Laughs) It was actually more of a change having two than getting the first one. When you only have one child you can follow his routines and his waking and sleeping hours but as soon as you have two they’re just never in sync. (Laughs) It’s time to get in sync now but the first two months were pretty hard when it came to sleep. (Laughs)
Naming your first child Sandrian made people scratching their heads. This time you went even further…
Daniel: I guess so, yeah. (Laughs) Both times we had a very hard time with this. It feels like that you have all these ideas and then you have a child coming out and all of these ideas just seem inappropriate. This individual comes out and has got certain features and individual characteristics that demand almost a different kind of name than all the ones you put to the table already. I think for the second time we thought that we had figured everything out beforehand… but nope. The same thing happened as the first time and we had to start all over again. (Laughs) A name is almost like a tattoo, it’s something that’s gonna stay with you for all your life. Okay, you can change it but still it kind of influences who you are, so it’s like a big responsibility.
Yeah, and you also have to make sure that they’d feel comfortable with their names in kindergarten and school…
Daniel: Yeah, that’s true. We tried to imagine all these different situations and it’s just impossible. (Laughs) I guess I’m kind of name damaged to start with because my name is Daniel and in Sweden it’s really a common name. It wasn’t so much before I was born but then half the population all of a sudden thought that they have an original idea and all of them started naming their children Daniel thinking they are the first in the world to do so. So then you had a whole generation with Daniels. I always felt a bit weird that I shared names with a lot of people I had nothing in common with. At least I’m happy enough to have a family name that’s not very common, or actually very uncommon. (Laughs) But it would be hard in Sweden to be named like Daniel Andersson. It’d be just like that I’m one of the two million Anderssons. So it’s always like that you want to find that special name for your kid that’s him and no one else without going to the extremes because trust me, we feel that we haven’t gone to the extremes. (Laughs)
But now with all Pain of Salvation fanboys and fangirls reading this you bet there’s gonna be more Sandrians and Nimhs.
Daniel: Well, there’s already one more Sandrian in Sweden. There’s this page called svenskanamn.se and when we checked this name at that point it was unique and we got zero hits when we searched the Internet for that name as well. But already there’s someone else in Sweden that has named their son Sandrian. In the Gothenburg area.
Bummer! (Laughs)
Daniel: Yep. Well, that’s how it is. What can you do? (Laughs)
If you lived in America you could probably have copyrighted the name.
Daniel: Yeah, I guess if you live in America maybe you could just search the patent for the name so no one can use it. (Laughs) I’m not sure you can do that though. Maybe you can if you pay. And then of course you have to have the R symbol afterwards. (Laughs) Or TM maybe. So every time you present yourself you say “Daniel TM” or you should say TM a little bit more silent as they are smaller letters, “What’s your name?” “I’m Daniel… TM” (whispering) Anyway, we should probably move on to more interesting questions that people are actually gonna care about. (Laughs)
Okay, so let’s change the subject. Do you often sing lullabies to your children? (Laughs)
Daniel: (Laughs) We’ve been reading lots and lots of fairytales. More fairytales than lullabies I would say. I was singing quite a lot of lullabies to the belly when Sandrian was in the belly. Unfortunately for Nimh we didn’t have the same routines when it came to that. I don’t know if it’s always like that when you have the first child and then the other one or it was just a matter of what was happening in life but I never got to sing to the belly as much as I did with Sandrian. But I think Nimh caught up very quickly. He came out and he seemed to have this deep and genuine interest for music already from the start. (Laughs)
Which would be the most lullaby friendly Pain of Salvation song?
Daniel: Hmm… I guess I would probably have to say This Heart of Mine. I have to admit though that I haven’t been singing Pain of Salvation songs, not as lullabies anyway. (Laughs) But Sandrian has sort of a thing with especially Mortar Grind. He probably heard certain parts of the EP during the recording but he’s been heavily into KISS for a while. You could only play KISS and you should play it all the time and everywhere. But all of a sudden when I was driving him to kindergarten one morning he said, “I want to listen to when daddy sings.” I was like, “Oh, okay?!” so I put the EP on because that was what he heard at that point. All of a sudden during Mortar Grind I heard it dubbed for the whole chorus “Now she’s mine, all broken inside”. There was this high-pitched beautiful sort of extra dub on that. I was like, “What’s that? It’s weird.” So I looked back and he was sitting and singing in the backseat. It was really cool and of course my heart just broke with love and warmth. And as soon as I looked back of course he just laughed and stopped singing and looked at me like, “Daddy, concentrate on driving!” And when we stopped the car he said, “You sing very high, Daddy.” (Laughs) “Well, yeah, I guess so.” He said, “Very nice.” It was pretty cool. I was like floating on clouds for the rest of the day.
I would say it’s the compliment you need.
Daniel: Absolutely. Then we can take any sort of reviews. If I can just have that once a week I’ll be fine.
Having your second child was surely the highlight for you but for the band this year didn’t seem to offer much starting with the issues of SPV, InsideOut’s owner and distributor.
Daniel: Yeah, the summer part was really heavy. I mean looking at it in retrospective I’m kind of happy that the American tour didn’t happen because Nimh was two weeks late and that would have meant after he had been born I would have just had three days to get to know him before I have to take off for America. So I’m really happy that it didn’t happen after all but still when that happened it was really taking its toll for the whole band mentally. It was just a very heavy blow because we were all looking forward a lot to that tour. I’ve made this comparison before and it’s like you have an engine with, like in this case, 4 or 5 cylinders. (Laughs) There were a lot of negative feelings, first we had to deal with Kristoffer and then we had Simon and that didn’t really work out either. But we managed to turn all the negative things around and we felt a very positive vibe and we really had all the energy on top and it was like having those cylinders really in sync. And the tour cancellation just happened exactly in the wrong period of time. It was kind of heavy for all of us but maybe especially for me since I’ve been doing this for quite some time, and then of course for Léo who was just coming to the band. So my feeling was that it was probably the hardest blow for Léo and me. But you never know for sure because we’re Scandinavians so it’s hard to tell what we feel. (Laughs) But then again of course it was very nice to have our second son and kind of focus on that which was necessary in all sort of ways anyway.
I’m not sure it would have made it anyway but originally Road Salt was scheduled to be released in time for the American tour…
Daniel: That’s actually, again in retrospective, something that I’m kind of happy about because I had basically three weeks left to spend on the album at that point and there were about six songs without lyrics or vocals and there were also two songs that I would have wanted to record for the album but then I skipped because I felt that we needed to get the album done. So from that point of view I’m kind of happy that it didn’t happen because that meant that I could actually get much more back to Road Salt and try to make it more like I wanted it to be made and really take the time to let it rest and get back to it with fresh ears and fresh mind. Of course it’s probably annoying for the fans to wait for a longer period of time but I was doing a discography the other month for something else and the thing is that I always walk around feelings that I don’t do enough, that I could be doing more, I could have more albums coming out. Even though I work so much I always have the feeling that I’m wasting time spending it on living when I could spend it on making stuff. (Laughs) But as soon as you start making a discography it kind of makes you feel a little bit more relaxed because we actually have quite a high amount of output compared to a lot of other bands if you consider the type and kind of band that we are. I vividly recall spending four years waiting for the next Queensryche album when I was into Queensryche and that was kind of normal procedure. And I can imagine being a die-hard Guns N’Roses fan with waiting for a new album for 13 years. (Laughs) So, I mean from that perspective I think we’re doing fine. (Laughs)
This comparison might scare a few Pain of Salvation fans…
Daniel: (Laughs) Yeah, I think from this point on we’re gonna spend 13 years on every album. I think then we’re gonna be happy and we’re gonna make perfect albums because I’m sure that the Guns N’Roses album is perfect. (Laughs)
Well… no!
Daniel: No! Well, you said it, not me. (Laughs)
But at least they don’t release a lot of them.
Daniel: (Laughs) No. For their part it’s actually one of the benefits that they only have one every 13th year. Imagine what the world would be like if there was one Guns N’Roses album every year. Knock on wood. (Laughs) Normally I’m thinking that I’m probably gonna piss off a lot of fans by saying stuff like that but with Guns N’Roses I’m not so sure.
Who cares anyway?
Daniel: Well, actually I think Léo likes them, so… (Laughs) If actually one guy in the band likes them that should be a sign that probably at least some fans would have the same music taste. So, I was only kidding of course, I love Guns N’Roses, I think they’re marvellous.
And you still have all those posters in the rehearsal room, so I guess it’s just fine.
Daniel: Oh yeah, lots of them! (Laughs)
Okay, so let’s talk about this tour that didn’t happen. First time it was you kind of denying America, now you can say it was fate… Will it work out for the third time?
Daniel: Who knows? (Laughs) We’ll see what happens but we have a standing offer from Mike Portnoy that we can definitely join them on tour but we have no idea when that’s gonna happen and what their plans are gonna be like. It’s kind of odd actually that we’ve spent all those years not going there and then we finally decided to change our stand on that thing and then just like a letter in the mail all of a sudden you get this offer for the US tour. So everything seems to be like synchronized, the wheels are in motion, the universe is playing its cards and everything seems to be just happening for some reason. And then all of a sudden the universe was just kidding and it says, “Well, I think you were right the first time, let’s stick to that.” (Laughs) So it was kind of odd and I don’t know what’s right but guess we’ll see in the future. I think if we’re deciding to go once more and for any reason we can’t go because something happens then probably I should take that as the final sign that we should not go there. (Laughs) Ok, something is fighting really hard for us not to go there, so maybe if we go there something really bad is gonna happen, who knows? I don’t know. I don’t think I really believe in fate but still… signs are always interesting though. (Laughs)
The cancellation of the tour and the delay of the album resulted an EP, which is kind of unique from Pain of Salvation…
Daniel: Yeah. But the thing is that I always liked smaller formats. I tended to like singles when I was a kid. All the albums that I’ve listened to on vinyl at that point were LPs but then Mom and Dad, they had a stash of singles and I just liked the whole idea. It’s like just shedding a light on this one or two different songs and I kind of liked that whole vibe. I’ve always wanted to make singles and EPs but today it’s not something that is highly appreciated probably by any record label. They released Ashes back in 2000 and now the EP and I’m pretty happy that that situation made it possible. Maybe a lot of our fans believe that a proper Pain of Salvation product should be 79 minutes long and completely packed with stuff but believe it or not I always had the intention of shorting things down, I was just not as good at it as I would have needed to be. (Laughs) When we made the first albums they were not that long because I really wanted them to be long, it was just because I failed to make them shorter than that. Anyway, when we came to the situation of cancelling the tour and delaying the album it was pretty much anything goes because InsideOut wanted to have some product out just for Pain of Salvation to kind of tell the world that we’re still around and things are still happening. (Laughs) For me that was just great and I actually asked for one or two singles as well, but that I think was a bit too much. (Laughs) Still I think that the EP is almost too long because it’s like 30 minutes and a few of my favourite full length albums in my CD shelves are actually 35 minutes, so this is almost as long as a lot of my favourite full lengths and those would be like some of the old Beatles albums. I mean I guess you’d have to say the newer Beatles albums even though they’re quite old. (Laughs) I think people will say that it’s too short for an EP and I think they have no idea what they’re talking about or they just too prog. (Laughs)
I already heard people complaining about the EP having only one unique song…
Daniel: Well, they could possibly not know that yet because we don’t know that yet either. We have a bunch of songs that are gonna go into the Road Salt concept. Nothing is really 100% sure yet when it comes to what songs are gonna make the Road Salt album and it’s highly likely that even if those songs are gonna end up in the concept they might be prolonged or shortened or have a different mix or mastering, so I wouldn’t know whether it’s unique or not.
How can you say that the fans don’t know?! They even know that it’s gonna be The Perfect Element Part 2½.
Daniel: Wow! (Laughs) I’ve read so many interesting news about the band that I didn’t even know and I was like, “Oh, really?” (Laughs) I wonder if I should make them happy and follow their lead or if I should just break their whole illusion. I can understand that you would see a lot of references to The Perfect Element because I can see lots of references myself. I guess what happened is that for Road Salt I’ve broken down basically every sort of creative borders because I think it’s easy to look at the previous albums and divide them into fictional and autobiographical for instance. And you can sort them into more chronological concepts and more idea based concepts. But the thing is that there are cross-references between basically all of the albums that we made and all of them play some sort of a role in the huge concept that is the world of Pain of Salvation where they all kind of interact with each other. There are lyrical and also musical cross-references between the albums. There’s no such thing as fictional and there’s no such thing as autobiographical because when it comes to fictional every act of creation that you do contains parts of yourself and that’s something that I really state on the Be album. Any sort of creation is the creators need to understand him or herself, and you have to bring yourself into what you’re doing if you want to succeed. So even the fictional carries a lot of autobiographical markers in many ways. And the same thing goes for the autobiographical because as soon as you make a selection of what you want to use for something autobiographical it becomes fictional in the sense that it’s not a true image of anything because you just use certain colours of the palette. And that means you have painted objectivity with subjectivity or subjectivity with objectivity or however you want to phrase it. I guess any kind of creator is usually fighting to achieve the one or the other and I have just given up. For once I just completely torn down all the borders between fictional and autobiographical for this album using aspects of both worlds to try to tell the story that Road Salt needs to tell in a way. And that means in a way it is a continuation of The Perfect Element just as much as it is a continuation of Remedy Lane and probably all of the different albums that we’ve made maybe with the exception of Be because that’s such a large scale concept. But probably in ten years time I’m gonna see those references too. (Laughs)
Yeah, even to Abbey Road.
Daniel: Of course. (Laughs)
My favourite song on the EP is Linoleum, which is obviously the closest one to me as I was in the rehearsal room when it was born and recorded. It seemed to me like it was a band jam from scratch but the booklet says music and lyrics by Daniel Gildenlöw.
Daniel: What I usually do, and especially for the Road Salt album what I’ve done is that I have these ideas that I bring to the rehearsal room and I start playing them and I wait for people to tag along in the way that they feel most comfortable. And then play that feel around until you get something that feels right. This is the most natural way for every musician to do it and then you can kind of bring it closer to whatever vision you have in the back of your head. But usually we play that part and then I change and start playing the next kind of thing that I want to try to connect. Sometimes that just doesn’t work but usually if it works in my head it works in a rehearsing room situation too. And then let everyone get into the groove of that part and passage and once you’ve gone through the different passages you can start shaping kind of a structure rather than having everyone learn the structure first and then learning the vibes on every different part, which is much more what we did on the previous albums. We had a different situation then though. I think Léo as a drummer is a much more intuitive drummer in many ways than Johan is when it comes to the personality to start with. I mean Johan was intuitive because we had played together for such a long time that if I played something he knew exactly what kind of drums I would want to have on that. With Léo it feels like that he’s much more intuitive to start with and instead of kicking his butt to play more I guess you have to kick his butt to play less. (Laughs) And that’s a nice change I have to say. And the last thing you do when you have all the parts is to record it a few different times so you can actually pick out kind of the different parts where you feel that it was the closest to what it was supposed to be like. And then of course still there’s a lot of work after that. The funny thing is that for all of those ideas I had no vocals at all so the vocal melodies actually came afterwards when I had the music already, which isn’t really usual. It has happened a few times before but for this album it’s been a lot of that where I put together the music first. Usually I have a rough idea of what I want but I spend a lot of time on it, especially in the car, playing the instrumental version over and over again and trying different versions and just trying to find that magical moment where you connect and something happens, which is not so common for me because usually I don’t start with riffs. But I’ve tried to do that much more on this album just to get more of a jammy loose feeling to everything. I have to say that probably Linoleum and If You Wait are the most true jammy songs of the whole album. And when it came to Linoleum I’ve never played it before, it was basically just kind of ideas in my head at the moment and that’s why it’s in A minor. (Laughs) That’s the problem when you have ideas in your head. You tend to use the simplest way. I guess for the new album all the ideas that I had in my head and had not come up with with any sort of instruments close at hand have ended up usually in the key of A minor because that’s what you first start trying out. (Laughs) With the exception of Whole New Alone which I actually transcribed because I felt that it didn’t work out in A minor, it just felt a lot better having it in B flat because it just feels right that way. It’s just a B flat song. (Laughs)
That’s my other favourite Mother and Child (working title), right?
Daniel: Yeah, exactly! I still have two lyrics on that one and I still don’t know which one to continue on. It’s really annoying. It’s one of those songs that have been haunting me. On the other hand it’s been after we kind of failed to finish the album before the tour that didn’t happen and then I went into daddy-mode. I had a few months where I was really trying as much as I could to take a break from the album and just focus on being daddy, do the dishes and make the flowerbed outside and spend time in the garden, which was really nice. (Laughs) I’ve really reinvented garden work and I realized how good it is for your soul. (Laughs) It’s a pity that I usually don’t have time for it. But anyway, after that I really didn’t get back to working on the music again until months later in the year and then we started with the EP and then of course you have the artwork, the mastering and there’s a lot of work to be done. And then all of a sudden you have the EP release party coming up and you have the Australian tour and you have the Russian gigs and you have a week long European tour and then it’s Christmas! The second half of this year has just passed really quickly, so I haven’t really had a lot of time except for to record some string sections for a few of the songs. I haven’t really had time to get back 100% and really dive into the album. I think in the back of my head I’m still working on lyrics and stuff and Whole New Alone has been one of the songs that kind of haunted me for quite some time along with 3-4 other songs. As far as I can tell I just can’t find the really 100% correct opening. I’ve made big chunks of lyrics with different approaches and still I feel unsatisfied and when I feel that feeling of unsatisfaction it’s usually a sign that there’s something better in there that’s just teasing me until one day it just clicks. Hopefully. (Laughs)
I think you should listen to more Manowar for lyrical inspiration.
Daniel: Manowar? Yes, that’s the thing! I think we have too few swords and stuff like that lyric-wise. Any day now, we’re gonna sort everything out! That’s the one thing that is lacking Pain of Salvation’s music. And I think at that point Léo has to do some of the singing. He’s got a very nice Manowar fake vocal thing happening. (Laughs)
What went through your mind when you learned about SPV filing for bankruptcy?
Daniel: Ah… at that point I think all different scenarios were going through our heads. These were the last three weeks when I was supposed to be working on the album and that of course I spent desperately trying to solve any sort of situations. First to salvage the tour and the album but then I realized that we have to focus on one thing so we dropped the album and focused on making the tour happen but then that just fell through as well and then you ended up having spent three weeks just feeling bad about stuff and not having anything to show for it. At that point I think we tried all different scenarios with the label and also just within the band to see what we can do but in the end we didn’t have any sort of options because the distribution was going down and basically at that point they weren’t bankrupt. They were filing for bankruptcy which meant that we couldn’t get any money and InsideOut couldn’t get any money either but it also wasn’t like that SPV was gone, so we couldn’t really move on either. We had to wait for the bankruptcy or to see if the possible bankruptcy would go through or not, so everyone was just in limbo, just waiting for anything to happen. I hate that. I really want something to happen rather than that. I’d rather have a really bad message than just nothing and waiting… I can’t stand that. After those three weeks of fighting to try to solve things and end up with what I, at that point, felt was a failure was really hard for me because I’m pretty used to making things work one day or another. As long as it comes to myself and it’s up to me if I have a vision or a need or something I really really want, I’ll do anything, I’ll find a solution and I’ll just make it work somehow. If I have to twist myself inside out and backwards then I’d do that but when you’re dealing with corporate levels it’s really hard and you get to a point where it doesn’t matter how much you talk, how much you think and how much you try to find a solution. In the end you end up with having not what you wanted to have and that was a really weird feeling for me. (Laughs) Probably I haven’t experienced it as many times as I probably thought I had.
In the end Century Media bought up InsideOut, which can be a good move as they are distributed by EMI. On the other hand they are not experienced in promoting InsideOut type of bands, I would say…
Daniel: Yeah, that’s true but I’m pretty happy with the solution. To me it still feels rather fresh. I mean it’s been a few months but everything happens pretty slow when it comes to the music industry so I think we’re still sorting things out. With all shifts of these kinds you have your old working procedures that need to be replaced with new sort of working procedures and that is still in the process of happening. I think it’s very promising for the structural point of view and I’ve noticed already that like for example in Sweden we have a different situation now. No one really knew SPV in Sweden in the past but everyone knows what EMI is and that makes a whole lot of difference because there’s a very well organized structure already on location here in Sweden. Probably you’ll get to ask about Melodifestivalen, which is kind of the Eurovision Song Contest here in Sweden. So when you come to that you can notice a big difference. I mean both InsideOut and Century Media is a great label but when I mentioned to Thomas (Thomas Waber) that we had qualified for Melodifestivalen he had no idea what that means for a Swedish band. Because that is like the biggest thing that could possibly happen to you as a musician. It’s bigger than a Grammy Award by far. (Laughs) In Germany they were like, “Okay, but… that’s good… I guess?” When we told the same thing to the Swedish Century Media office who work door to door with EMI they were like, “Really?! You have to be kidding. I’m just waiting for candid camera to come out and say that everything is just a joke.” I think that at that point we were in a much more comfortable situation having Century Media and EMI that have a much more stronger position here in Sweden than InsideOut and SPV.
Speaking of Melodifestivalen I’m a bit surprised about the entry song as Road Salt is more like a singer/songwriter one not a typical band song.
Daniel: Yeah. I sent in three songs and I really like the song Road Salt. You’ve heard it so you know how it is, but yeah, it’s weird that they picked that one. They called me to tell me that the song Road Salt has qualified for Melodifestival and the reaction they probably meet 99,9% of the time is like a big “Yaaaaaay” and I was just like, “THAT song? That’s weird. I’ve sent in three songs and that was the one I least expected to be chosen.” (Laughs) The guy on the phone sounded very confused saying, “Well, I don’t know what other two songs you’ve sent in…” so I told him, “No, it’s okay, I understand and I’m happy but surprised.” But again I think Road Salt is a great song and it’s a song that touches me deeply and it’ll be a pleasure to perform it. I’m just surprised in a way. Still I’m really happy and it’s gonna be very interesting. I mean here in Sweden half the population is watching the contest and that’s just weird. That’s usually not happening with any sort of TV shows these days. What has been very annoying for me is that, especially here in Sweden, the last 5-10 years has been very product oriented and empty. The music that qualifies and the music that they pick out and the music we have to choose from feels empty, like no one really bled for it. So from that point of view I’m really happy that we have at least one song that I know of this year’s edition that will be true. There will be a song that will be honest and real and then if people pick the other stuff then okay, that’s their choice. Well, of course I’m gonna be annoyed at that point but right now I feel that I wouldn’t have a problem with that. So I think it’s gonna be highly interesting because it’s a huge machinery. I’ve been at the first meeting and we’ve had some contact and it’s very obvious that it’s a huge and extremely expensive machinery that is starting to build up at this point already and we’re gonna be kind of in the midst of that machinery which will be very interesting I think. We’ve already talked about the kind of dry spell 2009 and it was a sort of surprising end to that dry spell because all of a sudden we had the EP, the Russian gigs, the Australian tour and the one-week Europe tour, we’re getting home the day before Christmas, and we’ve also qualified for this. So all of a sudden 2009, which I had started to refer to myself as the year that nothing happened, turned out to be a year when a lot of things happened but very very late. (Laughs) That’s sort of interesting for me and I really like that because I tend to appreciate life a lot when lots of things are happening as long as it’s not things that are forced upon you and things you don’t wanna do of course, then it’s not fun at all. I don’t have a problem with having lots of things to focus on as long as I like the things.
Multitasking.
Daniel: Exactly. I kind of feel alive when I do that. (Laughs) So I really look forward to see what’s gonna happen. We’re still in the dark a little bit as to knowing when and where we’re gonna have our part of the contest so there’s a lot of huge question marks I guess. I think that’s also one of the things that we have gotten very used to working in this industry. I noticed that people that are not used to the music industry and that are kind of dragged into it for different reasons – for instance when we have help with people doing merchandise and of course girlfriends of the members of the band that come in – I think are a little bit shocked when they notice how things are when you’re in the music industry. When you go to a gig you really don’t know exactly when you’re gonna get food for instance. There’s just so much things that you really don’t know and you can’t really schedule or plan anything. If there’s a schedule the only thing you can be certain of is that’s what’s not gonna happen. Anything else but that’s not gonna happen. (Laughs)
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All rights reserved (c) 2009 by Zoltán Koncsok
All photos were taken at DK Gorbunova, Moscow on the 27th of November 2009
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